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Crop Circle Update - FIELD OF SCHEMES I
By Bill Eatwell
In the November 1992 issue of the Mufon UFO Journal, there
is an article by Jim Schnabel titled, "Confessions Of A Crop
Circle Spy". Well, as always, there is more to this story
than is being published. For one thing, there are alleged
inaccuracies in Schnabel's telling of his side of an
a recorded telephone interview that was to be published in
the journal of the Centre For Crop Circle Studies known as
The Circular which is edited by George Wingfield. The
interview was mysteriously pulled from the magazine before
distribution.
In October, while attending George Wingfield's Dallas, Texas
lecture (see HUFON Report, Nov., 1992 issue), George gave
me, in strict confidence, a copy of the Schnabel interview
that had been pulled. George told me that his publisher in
England, Michael Green, had pulled the interview from
publication while he was on his lecture tour here in
America.
I was told to "sit" on my copy unless given the go ahead to
publish the suppressed interview in the HUFON Report if
George was unable to resolve the problem when he returned to
England. On Saturday,(12/5) I received a call from a friend
alerting me that a new publication in Dallas, the Texas
Mufon Newsletter, had just published George's suppressed
interview.
I immediately called George in England and asked permission
to reprint the same article in HUFON Report. I not only
got the OK, but received the next day, by fax a copy of
George's soon to be published reply to the above Journal
article by Schnabel. Since not all HUFON members subscribe
to the Mufon UFO Journal, I will carefully summarize
Schnabel's article below. Included in this Crop Circle
Update are both the suppressed interview, and George's faxed
reply to Schnabel's article which should appear in the
December Mufon UFO Journal. According to George, the
following (suppressed) interview was made and recorded by
Dr. Armen Victorian (AKA: Henry Azadehdel, Dr. Alan Jones,
and for this interview, Cassava Ntumba). George says that
there was no time lapse between Victorian's prior call to a
Robert Irving, and Jim Schnabel. Why is this important?
Because, Schnabel claims that Irving called him to warn of
Victorian's question line and the two of them conspired to
lead Victorian, as Ntumba, down the old proverbial false
disinformation trail.
George also told me that someone (he knows who) sent a copy
of the "pulled" interview to Schnabel so he could fashion a
quick cover story and, somehow, persuade the Mufon UFO
Journal to print it. After you have read the following, I
will have more at the end.....
THE SUPPRESSED CIRCULAR INTERVIEW
Subject of The Circular interview in this issue is Jim
Schnabel. He has written several newspaper articles on the
circles beginning with an item in the Washington Post last
year which espoused the cause of orthodox Meadenism. More
recently he collaborated with Robert Irving to produce a
piece for the Independent Magazine in which it was implied
that many of the major pictograms in the mid-Wiltshire area
were hoaxed by the UBI group. Although UBI has faked a few
minor formations (of which CCCS has full details)
suggestions of major hoaxing by them --at, say, Alton
Barnes--are known to be untrue and this article can only be
seen as part of Schnabel and Irving's campaign to make
people think that the pictograms are all hoaxes and promote
the highly dubious claims of Doug & Dave.
Unlike Doug & Dave, Schnabel is an accomplished circlefaker
and in July he came second in The Cerealogist's Circlemaking
Competition at West described then as the "Master of
Grapeshot," he did not deny having had previous circlemaking
experience.
Ostensibly Schnabel is a student doing a post-graduate
course in sociology at Bath University. Despite this his
telephone number is on the Oxford exchange and his address
in Bath (where Robert Irving lives) is secret. He usually
gives his address as c/o Lincoln College, Oxford, although
at the beginning of l992 Lincoln College stated that
Schnabel no longer had any connection with them.
Continued.....
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(7054) Fri 29 Jan 93 18:19
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In the following candid interview Schnabel reveals his role
as a paid disinformation agent working for an unnamed
western inrelligence organisation. From what he says, one
is made aware of the extent and determination of the
continuing campaign to rubbish the circles and discredit the
researchers. This campaign is but a continuation of the Doug
& Dave scam with different faces, different players.
The "interviewer" in this case is Armen Victorian, who has
written for The Circular previously and who introduces
himself as Kasaba Ntumba. Unaware of Ntumba's true
identity, Schnabel gradually opens up to this apparently
sympnthetic caller.
It is only fair to say that Schnabel now denies everything
which is contained herein and telephoned me some days later
in a state of scarcely suppressed agitation to claim that he
had just been ~winding up ~ Victorian (whom he had never met
or talked to, apart from a very brief introductory phone
call a short while before on the same day). Readers of The
Circular will have to judge for themselves whether or not
this is the case.
One may justifiably ask why someone would ever reveal well-
hidden secrets to a total stranger at such short notice. I
can only say that Victorian has achieved similar coups time
and again in speaking, by telephone to top intelligence
officers in the U.S.A., in South Africa and in other
countries and these people have frequently regretted what
they have let slip. If Schnabel had been "winding up"
Victorian, it is inconceivable that he would then ring me up
and come clean. Apart from anything else he never normally
calls me, and of all the hoaxes I 've known --not just
circular ones-- no hoaxer has ever once sprung forward
saying "it's all a hoax, don't believe a word I just said."
Double bluff? Well, if you believe that, you'll believe
anything !
The acid test, of course, is the tape recording itself
rather than the transcript. Listen to this and, as with the
recent "Dianagate" tapes, one soon discards the notion that
the responses are contrived or false. It is to be regretted
that information has been obtained in this way but in the
face of a ruthless and sustained campaign to deceive the
public and CCCS this is amply justified.
For people who scoff at the idea that intelligence agencies
have any interests in the circles phenomerlon, I can only
say that when in Washington, D. C., last April I was taken
specifically tomeet four charming gentlemen from the CIA who
made no secret about their profession and also their
interest in the circles and the UFO phenomenon. This is
entirely consistent with the content of this interview.
Continued.....
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(7055) Fri 29 Jan 93 18:20
By: John Komar
To: All
Re: HUFON/CROPS, 3/9
St: 7054<>7056
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[Telephone rings]
Sch: Hello.
Vic: Mr Schnabel?
Sch: Yes.
Vic: This is Mr Ntumba.
Sch: Oh, hi. Hallo.
Vic: I'm sorry to bother you at Ihis time of the night. I
was...now then, I was speaking to your friend.
Sch: Sorry?
Vic: I was, I was speaking to your friend a few hours ago,
Mr Robert Irving.
Sch: Oh yeah, Rob Irving, yeah.
Vic: Thal's right; and I understand that you won the second
prize in proving that, eventually, these, eh, circles
are not reaily what the others think are made by 7-feet
green men. And they are very much in an earth bound
situation.
Sch: Yes, yes, I wouldn't have to prove anything really.
Vic: My congratulations - [laughs] - you did a good job.
Sch: Thank you very much, thank you very much.
Vic: Have you published anything?
Sch: Yes, eh, I have published a few things....
Vic: In magazines or newspapers - or private or.. ?
Sch: Well, yeah, I published something just this past
weekend.
Vic: Ah!
Sch: In the Independent Magazine - that was a collaboration
with....
Vic: Hey! You have an American accent!
Sch: Sorry?
Vic: You have an American accent.
Sch: Yes, I'm originally from the States, that's true.
Vic: Which part?
Sch: I'm from the East Coast.
Vic: East Coast. New York part?
Sch: In Virginia.
Vic: Virginia, a beautiful part of the country.
Sch: Yes it is, thank you very much.
Vic: Beautiful part of the country. One thing. . . One thing
that Mr Irving said to me that I was a bit puzzled. He
said that he works at a group of intelligence . . ., or
something like that.
Sch: Oh, he did?
Vic: He did.
Sch: [Laughs] He, um...
Vic: When?
Sch: He sometimes, eh. . ., says things that he shouldn't
say, but, eh...
Vic: What? Did he work genuinely with an intelligence...
Sch: Sorry - say that again.
Vic: Did he actually work with intelligence in the past?
Sch: Well, I really couldn't comment on anything like that.
I mean I think you'd have to ask him.
Vic: ' Cos he was saying to me that - you know...What did he
say to me?... It was something that mystified me, to
be perfectly honest with you. Eh, you know, he said
that it pays, you know, that exactly what, you know, he
said to me, to do what he is doing, and he works with a
western intelligence... , he said to me.
Sch: Yeah.
Vic: And he said that man doesn't live on bread alone.
Sch: Yeah, well, you know, I really couldn't comment on any
of that, I mean, ...eh....
Vic: Do you know, if that's the case that he is actually
working with.. ?
Sch: Well, I wouldn't want to say anything on the record
obviously.
Vic: [Laughs.] Well I don't blame you, can I? But I mean is
he. .? What I'm trying to say is you know....Look,
you've handled these cases for several....sometimes
people say things, as you've said yourself. Is it
saying it in order to create credence and mystery or
you know this....? because if it is the case, it
backfires doesn't it, because that makes the man...you
know what I'm trying to say.
Sch: No, I'm not clear
Vic: All I'm saying is....if that's not the case, the man
doesn't work,.so why is he making all this, you
know...statements, you see what I'm saying, it makes
him look, you know, a person who doesn't have any
credit in his opinion - do you see what I'm trying to
say?
Continued.....
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(7056) Fri 29 Jan 93 18:21
By: John Komar
To: All
Re: HUFON/CROPS, 4/9
St: 7055<>7057
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Sch: Well....
Vic: It's like me saying I'm the king.....
Sch: Well, I don't know....
Vic: Well, it's like me claiming....
Sch: I don't know what he has said but I mean he does have
some connections in....l don't know, but I don't think
thats something that either of us want to talk about.
Vic: But you know - there is a story...
Sch: I don't quite know who you are, so I don't want to talk
about it in too much detail.
Vic: No, but I've been reading some of these magazines they
have issued about groups and these articles about the
7-feet green men... groups put out that's there's
intelligence in it, etc., etc., and now Mr Irving says
that to me. You see I was a bit taken back. Is there
any interest from the intelligence ,part in it as well?
Sch: Sorry, intelligence....?
Vic: Any interest from the intelligence part in the
phenomenon?
Sch: Well, does he have an interest in the intelligence? ...
I'm not sure quite what...
Vic: What I'm trying to tell.... it's my bad English, I'm
sorry.
Sch: About M15, or are you talking about UFOs?
Vic: Anything...any government intelligence group....
Sch: No, no, it's clear to me now. Yes, well I mean....off
the record, I mean I think a number of agencies
throughout the world have taken an interest in this.
Vic: Well, that we've heard, haven't we?
Sch: It is potentially a very explosine phenomenon.
Vic: I mean, can they exploit it, how can they exploit the
phenomenon?
Sch: Well, I mean, I think...l think some of us are
concerned that the phenomenon may - it's difficult to
explain, but....
Vic: Try me!
Sch: We believe there is certainly something very sinister
about what's going on - eh..., I don't know whether
you're a Christian man or not....?
Vic: Christian... of course I am.
Sch: But some of us feel quite....
Vic: I'm a Catholic.
Sch: Well, yes, yes, so am I. And some of us feel concerned
that, eh....
Vic: Some arms of the government are doing something...
psychological warfare, or psychotronic weaponry, you
know.
Sch: We think that sometimes that a little bit of intrigue .
. sometimes is necessary in cases as serious as this,
um, and sometimes measures have to be taken, but I
think, I mean, overall, I think that the phenomenon is
something which we think will disappear very shortly.
Vic: [Bated breath!!] How, how, how, how, how, how? I mean,
I'm sorry, but I'm just curious - it's mind-boggling
what you're saying! But how, how do you know that will
happen?
Sch: [Sigh] Well, we think that it, that people will no
longer take notice of it, I mean, it may continue but,
eh, it....
Vic: But why do you say phenomenon? You proved that this is
man-made, if it's a man-made... how could it be a
phenomena? Or am I in the dark, or I've missed
something somewhere?
Sch: Well, I'm, I'm, I think some of them are definitely
man-made; I mean definately.
Vic: But, so, but so, we are suggesting that there's also a
part to it that is genuine?
Sch: I think there is a part which is entirely sinister and
I'm not sure how genuine it is or whether it's made by
people but it's something very sinister and I think
it's something that....
Vic: Are we talking about mugic, dark powers?
Sch: Possibly, yes.. and I think that it...hang on, I'm
getting a bit. . .
Vic: It' s intriguing, when we say dark powers arewe talking
about... sort of Satan and that sort of thing, or are
we talking about actually....?
Sch: AbsolutelY!
Vic: I see, I see, so there isn't any sort of military
implication or the test of, of weaponry or anything of
that sort, which is sinister?
Sch: Oh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that.. l think it's a
very complex issue though.......
Vic: Are we talking about the part of the military wing
who's under the brainwashing, or whatever, of the
sinister forces who are doing this - you know, making
it a bit more complex?
Sch: Well, well it's very difficult to explain to vou -
to explain the structure of some of these
organisations, but......
Continued.....
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(7057) Fri 29 Jan 93 18:21
By: John Komar
To: All
Re: HUFON/CROPS, 5/9
St: 7056<>7058
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Vic: For example? Give me an example.
Sch: Why? I couldn't go into detail but, eh, basically
it's something which is concerning people worldwide
and have pooled their resources, worldwide, and are
involved.....
Vic: How about the British Government? Are they also... ?
Sch: Well, yes. The German Government, the American
government, the Vatican as well.
Vic: How about Robert? Does Robert have anything with any of
this to help them along with it, to determine what is
going on?
Sch: I wouldn't want to comment on the record or anything
like that.
Vic: Of course not.
Sch: Definitely, you know....as you seem to be sympathetic
to what we're saying.....
Vic: Of course! What you're saying makes me worried.
He is definitely on the good side
Sch: He is.... he is one of our best people, yes.
Vic: And he's helping the governments to determine which
faction is doing this?
Sch: Yes, it's very... extremely sensitive, sensitive work
as you can probably imagine.....
Vic: Is it...eh...now, let's see, are we talking about
military, or are we talking about intelligence, are we
talking about the negative side, you see what I ' m
trying to say?
Sch: It's not quite a military thing but there are elements
of military intelligence which have loaned resources.
Vic. Ahhhh! ! We are talking about people who have had a
career, they've left their career, they have
corporations, etc., etc., they are developing some kind
of weaponry and these are the testing ground.
Sch: No, no, no, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go into that, it's
much more of a spiritual warfare type of magic, I
think....
Vic: And they trying to exploit the populus, I mean, what
are they trying to achieve? This is what I'm trying to
determine.
Sch: I think they are trying to bring about changes in world
consciousness and for evil; for, for, you know, not for
good and, eh, there are some of us who are concerned
about this, and would like to see this new trend
stopped.
Vic: Is there any positive element in the government
who are supporting people like yourself or Robert or
anybody else for that mattter?
Sch: We have support, yes, we have support at the highest
levels.
Vic: That's marvelous -is it British government ....or...
forgive me, I'm not trying to be a nosy parker.
Sch: It involves several countries and as I say.....
Vic: Are we talking NATO allies or are we talking
about........... ? Sch: NATO ?...it's not at the
NATO level, but it's Germany involved, and this
country, and the United States... the Vatican as well.
Vic: I see...I... are we talking about...?
Sch: It's actually, it in volves a supernational
organisation which I will not name.
Vic: [Gasp]Supernational !!!
Sch: Supernational organisation.
Vic: Oh, good God !
Sch: Which is....?
Vic. This is above my head.
Sch: Which has ties to these countries, and organisations.
Vic: Are we talking, for example trilateral, that sort
of thing?
Sch: I wouldn't want to get into any specifics.
Vic: Do you have any information...'? I'm speculating...
Sch: It's something that is very dangerous to talk about,
and I hope, you will, you know...
Vic: I appreciate it, I appreciate it...I mean, is it a
mission that you volunteered or is it something that
you actually commission people ....I mean how do
they...?
Sch: It's...we are quite committed to it,
put it that way. It's not a sense of duty but it's
also.....
Vic: How about the other religions, does that come into it
or is it only Christian religion or just Christians
committed to it? eh, I mean Buddhism, or Judaism or
Islam .... you know?
Sch: I don't have a high enough overview of the whole
situation to know. There may be some others involved.
Vic: And the information that you gather is passed on to the
higher-ups in order to be filtered out and deductions
have to be taken, obviously; that should be the case?
Sch: Yes, yes.. we are not just feeding information, we
are taking active measures.
Vic: I hope they pay for what you've done, for the time and
all the things that you put in to it.
Sch: Well, yes...it's only natural that one should be
reimbursed.
Vic: That goes without saying.
Sch: One has to live, you know.
Vic: That is absolutely true. How many are there? Is there
any way I can get, sort of, you know, involved?
Sch: Well, I'll tell you, if you can, um, give me some
information, I understand you would probably want to do
it on a very confidential level... some information
or...I could have someone possibly give you a call or
visit you or something.
Continued.....
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(7058) Fri 29 Jan 93 18:22
By: John Komar
To: All
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St: 7057<>7059
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Vic: Who, who? Is it Mr. Irving who would visit me?
Sch: Oh no, it would not be Mr. Irving, it would not be Mr.
Irving. You know ...possibly...
Vic: Are you sure your telephone is not tapped?
Sch: My telephone? [laughs] No,no, my telephone would not be
tapped! My telephone is a secure phone.
Vic: Give me your address, Mr. Schnabel, please.
Sch: Um, well, ...[hesitation]... all right,
it's, it's, um.... you can reach me, care of... I have
to give you a sort of a safe, a safe box...
Vic: Of course!
Sch: . . . because I don't actually live here,
but it's: c/o Lincoln College.
Vic: LincolnCollege? OK,which school in Lincoln!
Sch: Lincoln College, Oxford.
Vic: Oxford ? Ah ha!
Sch: That's all you need to do, just: care
of...To Jim Schnabel, c/o Lincoln College, Oxford.
Vic: I would be able to reach you there?
Sch: Yes.
Vic: OK. And if I actually wanted to put anything in it
I would be hopefully visited by somebody?
Sch: Sorry?
Vic: I would be briefed about how I can start, you know,
etc., etc.?
Sch: Yes, I mean... if you give me some information........
[This section is intentionally omitted.]
A second call is then made on the following day:
Vic: Mr Schnabel?
Sch: Yes.
Vic: Hello, this is Ntumba speaking. I put something into
the post for you today.
Sch: Ah, good, good.
Vic: It will be with you if all goes well, hopefully by
Tuesday - you know how well your mail works...
Sch: No, I think today is a bank holiday,
so there won't be any mail through.
Vic: Well, I had first class stamps so I did that... Now,
I remember when this, eh, ******* came here, who...you
know when you said to me... has been a very good
source..
there was another man...
Sch: Excuse me, just let me pull the phone into my room here
to be private.
Vic: OK, of course.
[ Very long pause ensues]
Sch: Yes, right.
Vic: Is it better?
Sch: Yes.
Vic: OK. You remember last time when we were speaking you
said that, you know, ******* has been a good source
with regard to promoting the cause.
Sch: Yes, yes.
Vic: I remember that when ******* came here there was also
another person.
Sch: Yes.
Vic: Do you know who he was?
Sch: His name is #####.
Vic: Ahhhh! He was very quiet. Is he also working in the
same way?
Sch: I wouldn't want to speak about further things, I mean
it's extremely sensitive, I really shouldn't have told
you all that I've told you already...and unfortunately
at the moment I'm quite busy with some things, but um,
do send the material and perhaps... l'll tell you
here's um, a ...I'm trying to think. Will you ...
[massive hesitation]l...oh, no, no, if you send the
material to Lincoln College; send some indication of
where you can be reached.
Vic: O.K.
Sch: We can discuss things further, someone else will
contact you, and eh, it won't be me, it will be a much
more senior person in the organisation and then
subsequently, eh, you know, if things work out well and
more information can be shared with you.
Vic: The reason that I mentioned about that gentleman ...
because he was talking almost on a similar line, you
know, that you were talking in many ways... do you see
what I'm saying?
Sch: I really couldn't comment further on him, I wouldn't
want to compromise his position.
Vic: I see ! Well, I hope that, you know...that the mission
will be acomplished and that, you know, after all this
time. Has there been any good witness.. ?
Sch: We have no doubt of success.
Vic: Well I'm delighted to hear that. Now, about the
payment. How do we claim for the expenses, etc., you
know, how do we go about this usually? I mean, how do
you go about that?
Continued.....
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(7059) Fri 29 Jan 93 18:23
By: John Komar
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Sch: Well, that will be arranged and explained to you if,
if, if...[mumble, mumble]
Vic: Is it on a monthly basis?
Sch: If you are found to be a suitable candidate -- it's
extremely generous, don't worry about that.
Vic: OK. You know there is a great deal of travelling
backward and forward, you know, as you are involved in
this...
Sch: You will be expected to travel internationally.
Vic: Oh, what .... that's fascinating, that is absolutely
fascinating. What sort of data, you know, they would
be expecting from my side to be gathered, to be
collected for the cause? Sch: It woutd be not only
gathering data but also taking active measures,
possibly conducting disinformation campaigns and other
measures.
Vlc: In order to safeguard the initial whatever it is, isn't
it, the ultimate goal.
Sch: Yes. it's extremely complex, I mean I think you were...
you touched upon it briefly last night when you
mentioned the weapon...
Vic: I was very much impressed.....
Sch: The weapons systems, I mean there's the element of the
weapons testing and there's the second element of the,
eh, attempt to use the phenomenon of the circles to
discredit the New Age movement and other such
movements.
Vic: Ahhhh ! I see.
Sch: It's extremely complex and much more will be explained
to you if it's appropriate at a further time.
Vic: Of course, of course..... Sch: Don't worry about
payment, I mean, it's very generous.....
Vic: No, that's not my worry......
Sch: It's extremely strenuous work and...the organisation
realises that, um, you know, sometimes people become
burned out after a few years but usually they've made
enough money that they are able to retire - you know,
after a few years anyway.... it's very generous.
VIC: That's facscinating...and the gentleman, or the person
rather, who would be meeting me should my you know,
whatever become serious, would he be, or would she be,
an American or would she be English or different... you
know?
Sch: I'm not sure yet which organisation, I mean, that's not
my decision - which person in the organisation, I mean,
that's not my decision. It could be someone from
almost.
Vic: But, but, I mean what is the organisation that I would
be dealing with?
Sch: Well, I think that will all be explained to you.
Vic: Oh, I see. When, if and when, I'm taken in.
Sch: Yes.
[Break]
Vic: How about Colin Andrews' group - do you have any
section with a remit in Colin Andrews' group or not?
Sch: We have, eh...we have people in every group.
Vic: Fascinating, fascinating, that's absolutely, you know,
it's interesting to hear. As I said earlier, the
machinery is already into the post so the best thing is
I wait to hear further from you.
Sch: Yes, OK, good
Vic: OK. Thank you very much indeed for your time again.
Sch: God bless.
Vic: God bless you too. Bye bye.
The following summary of "Confession Of A Crop Circle Spy"
by James Schnabel is very brief as the original document in
the November 1992 Mufon UFO Journal is five pages long.
Dennis Stacy, the Journal's Editor, begins the article with
a half page introduction. Stacy's comments center around the
thought process regarding both UFO's and crop circles and
how they are perceived and possible related. Also, he notes
the lessons to be learned when hoaxing, fear of government
agents and conspiracies and, as this article painfully
illuminates, a wide spread paranoia begins to grip all those
individuals who are intimately, and publicly, involved with
both phenomena.
( Note that James Schnabel, by himself, won 2nd prize in the
circle making competition in England, at West Wycome, July
11-12, 1992...He also wrote an article on "The Art of
Circular Science" for The Cerealogist, No. 7, Harvest 1992,
which will be available from the HUFON library in Jan. 93.)
Continued......
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(7060) Fri 29 Jan 93 18:23
By: John Komar
To: All
Re: HUFON/CROPS, 8/9
St: 7059<>7061
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@MSGID: 1:123/26 0e924999
James Schnabel begins his article by describing numerous
unnamed crop circle researchers as "vociferous spycriers".
The story that follows is what Schnabel claims happened when
in a light-hearted moment he suggested to an inquirer,
"Cassave Ntumba", that "yes, it was all true, he was indeed
a spy". The phone interviews actually began with Ntumba
calling Rob Irving, a photographer who had worked with
Schnabel on a London newspaper article about one of the
circle-making groups active in Wiltshire. Schnabel says that
Irving recognized Ntumba as Henry Azadehdel, recalling Henry
as the person who authored a story last year about Doug
Bower and Dave Chorley being spies.(remember the Doug and
Dave scam?) Irving reportedly recorded the conversation, and
immediately afterwards called Schnabel and a "spy-chase"
plan was conceived. There were several lengthy phone
conversations between Irving and Ntumba, and Schnabel and
Ntumba. Schnabel summarizes most of these but adds something
to the first conversation that I could not find in the
suppressed interview. The "Plan", as Schnabel outlines to
Ntumba, "was meant (a) to divert attention from the ultra-
secret Stars Wars weapons testing which caused the circles".
Unless I missed something, this was not in the original text
of the Circular Interview. As Schnabel unfolds his story,
he begins using single letter references to various
individuals leaving the reader to only "guess" as to their
identity. One example is: "So I telephoned W and asked him
to relay to the elusive zadehdel that the whole thing had
been a send up. I hope-I said-that you have enough sense of
humor to see that this was all done in fun. To which W
responded: well I'm not sure I do, Jim. I mean, I wouldn't
be in the lease bit surprised if you were a spy". Other
lettered identities in the story are: R, E, G, F, T, D, U, M
and G, C and his good friend B. The "Plan", as Schnabel
calls it, received much notoriety following the Ntumba
interview. The worst unmasking according to Schnabel
occurred at the UFO meet at the Leeds Civic Theater, in
England, where Armen Victorian (aka: Ntumba) was to present
taped conversations of international debunkers. The taped
interview between Victorian and Schnabel was played causing
a confrontation in which Schnabel says he attempted to
convince the audience that it had all been a put-on, a sham.
Schnabel narrates only a portion of the recording in his
story. When I compared the two recorded conversations, some
sentences were not word for word. This indicates editing by
one or the other writer. Nothing important appeared missing
in the two recorded dialogs. The story ends with Schnabel
stating his personal feelings of the events, his believed
vindication, and his relief that W's article had been pulled
from the printers, and the article detailing The Plan
removed. However, Irving and Schnabel believe that there
still remains a "hint of unsolved mystery" to their acts as
one question still remains with the cerealogists: "How had
we known so much?"
As you can tell, the crop circle hoaxing issue is about to
come to a nasty head. Personally, I believe that there needs
to be more articles published on those persons doing valid
crop circle research and less on those interfering with the
phenomenon.
I spoke with our new contributor, Rosemary Ellen Guiley and
discovered that she had moved again. A copy of her Center's
report will be sent to me as soon as it is completed.
Meanwhile, Rosemary faxed the following comments for our
latest column. Her new address, phone and fax numbers are
included for publication per her request.
Center For North American Crop Circle Studies
Director: Rosemary Ellen Guiley
Address: P.O. Box 4766, Lutherville, MD 21094
Phone: 410-628-1522 / Fax: 410-628-1524
December 7, 1992
Rosemary writes:
Far too much attention was devoted this summer in crop
circle circles to allegations concerning disinformation,
conspiracy and hoaxing. Individuals alleged to be the
masterminds of a plot to debunk circles were given more
credit than they deserved by noise made by some
cereologists. The unfortunate result was to shift attention
away from solving the mystery of the phenomenon to focus on
personalities and name calling.
As for the circles themselves, in England they manifested in
as mysterious shapes as before, with the signature of
Goddess stronger than ever: snails, crescent moons, the knot
of Isis (resembling and alpha) and the mu-at, a dumbbell
with crescent that is also a sign of Isis. Overall, the
activity was more low-key than the previous year, with the
media paying scant attention to anything beyond the hoaxing
contest done in July for the amusement of humans.
Continued.....
--- FMail 0.92
* Origin: (1:123/26)
@PATH: 123/26
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(7061) Fri 29 Jan 93 18:24
By: John Komar
To: All
Re: HUFON/CROPS, 9/9
St: <7060
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@MSGID: 1:123/26 0e92499a
In the U.S., reported activity also was less that last year,
though reports continue to trickle in to the Center for
North American Crop Circle Studies (CNACCS). Illinois was
once again one of the more active states. The most dramatic
formation was a dumbbell in alfalfa near Fergus Falls,
Minnesota. More detailed reports will be available soon from
CNACCS and the North American Institute for Crop Circle
Research in Winnepeg.
In closing, one final comment. An unusual bit of movement
has occurred with two of the original English crop circle
researchers. It is being called the "grain drain" by
Rosemary Ellen Guiley. Seems that both Colin Andrews and
Richard Andrews (no relation) have moved their crop circle
business to America. Do they know something no one else
knows?
Stay tuned.
=END=
--- FMail 0.92
* Origin: (1:123/26)
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